brandonb 33 minutes ago

This is a nicely-designed study. For decades, we've known that inflammation is a risk factor for heart attacks.

In this study, the researchers designed a custom antibody that binds to oral bacteria. Then they used histological staining to identify specific biofilm structures inside the atherosclerotic tissue. Bacteria released from the biofilm were observed in heart attack cases, which gives us evidence that when the body's immune system responded to these bacteria, it triggered inflammation which ruptured cholesterol-laden plaque. So now we have more insight into the mechanism behind why inflammation is associated with heart attack risk.

The "pantheon" of risk factors for heart disease are:

* hs-CRP (inflammation): the mechanism studied by this research. High inflammation roughly doubles your risk of heart disease.

* ApoB - 20% of people with normal cholesterol will have abnormal ApoB, and be at risk of heart disease (ApoB is a structural protein in lipoproteins which cause arterial plaque).

* Lp(a) - the strongest hereditary risk factor for heart disease (Lp(a) acts as a multiplier on ApoB, since it camouflages cholesterol particles from your liver)

* HbA1c - insulin resistance /diabetes is a risk factor for just about everything.

* eGFR - estimates the volume of liquid your kidneys can filter, and is an input to the latest heart disease risk models (PREVENT).

All of these risk factors can be measured with a blood test. Easy to order online: https://www.empirical.health/product/comprehensive-health-pa...

  • andy99 26 minutes ago

    Understanding this is a shameless plug, it's very cool this exists.

    • stavros 19 minutes ago

      You don't need to use this specific blood test, by the way. Any lab near you will test these biomarkers for you.

      • andy99 11 minutes ago

        I live in Canada, despite being free this would be way more complicated to get. I don't want to be political, but just paying for this would be very appealing.

        • stavros 9 minutes ago

          I live in Greece, I can go to a lab, order this, and pay for it. I actually did, the other day, though it was free because the government happens to be running a Lp(a) testing program right now.

          Can you not get private labs in Canada?

          • brandonb a few seconds ago

            Interesting that you can do this in Greece. In the US, a doctor has the order the labs. (Direct-to-consumer lab testing technically exists, but is always ordered by a doctor.)

          • andy99 5 minutes ago

            I've always thought you need a requisition from a doctor, you can't just go pay for something, that's the only way I've seen it done. At least I've never seen services like the OP advertised, that's why I was stricken by it.

            (Happy to be corrected)

            • stavros 3 minutes ago

              Hm, over here you need a prescription for medication, but you can do whatever test you want to pay for. I don't know about Canada, though.

  • giveita 6 minutes ago

    What do you do next if one is high? See your Doctor?

    • A_D_E_P_T 3 minutes ago

      Yeah. If you don't have obvious symptoms, they'd likely prescribe you a statin, metformin, or some sort of dietary intervention. But you'd want to discuss it with your doctor in any case...

  • hollerith 14 minutes ago

    Do you happen to know how much that test costs? (Clicking a link to try to find out brought me to a page that asks for my zip code.)

    • brandonb 11 minutes ago

      That panel is $190.

      • DaveZale 8 minutes ago

        in the US? There was a question from Canada

  • OutOfHere 26 minutes ago

    For lipids, besides the named tests, HDL, LDL, and triglyceride tests are older but shouldn't be overlooked.

    For measuring inflammation, besides hs-CRP, additional tests are relevant and overlooked: regular CRP, ESR, and homocysteine.

    Additionally, a heart attack can result from parasite induced inflammation too, e.g. in chagas disease, which is becoming increasingly common in the US while being very undetected without explicit testing. It is also very difficult to treat, but the gist 4196f31d12a43a95756e792500ff516f has some info on treating it. Lyme disease too can harm the heart permanently. In both cases a pacemaker could help as applicable.

    • brandonb 2 minutes ago

      Can you expand more on why you'd want regular CRP over hs-CRP (specifically fr cardiovascular risk)?

      For homocysteine, one proxy is B12 or folate (which are most cost-effective to test). To my knowledge, ESR is used in certain rheumatologic conditions, and was used more often in the past, but isn't currently used for heart disease.

  • DaveZale 30 minutes ago

    are you a cardiologist? Excellent points, thanks

    • brandonb 22 minutes ago

      Not a cardiologist, but adjacent to this type of research. I'm an MLE but have published research in cardiology.

      • mitchbob a minute ago

        TIL MLE = Machine Language Engineer. It wasn't included in Google's AI overview, although I did get

        Major League Eating (MLE): a professional organization focused on competitive eating contests.

        Mister Leather Europe (MLE): an event within the European leather subculture.

      • DaveZale 6 minutes ago

        thanks for your input on this

A_D_E_P_T 4 minutes ago

This raises two questions.

- Does this suggest that courses of antibiotics might reduce heart attack risk?

- Does this suggest that regular use of, e.g., Listerine might reduce heart attack risk? (While, perhaps, slightly increasing esophageal cancer risk.)

It would be interesting to run an epidemiological study to see if current interventions move the needle in a meaningful way.

tbrownaw an hour ago

I assume this is a "here's another way this can happen" rather than "actually this is caused only by this and not by what we used to think"?

JumpCrisscross 22 minutes ago

“Dormant bacteria within the biofilm remain[ing] shielded from both the patient’s immune system and antibiotics because they cannot penetrate the biofilm matrix…”

Phages can penetrate biofilms [1]. (They have practice.)

[1] https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8875263/

  • jimbo808 13 minutes ago

    But you can't patent phages, so we'll just continue ignoring them

    • JumpCrisscross 12 minutes ago

      > you can't patent phages, so we'll just continue ignoring them

      Nope. Plenty of governments fund this sort of research. And chances are there isn’t an off-the-shelf phage that ticks the boxes, which means you need some amount of genetic engineering, in which case Monsanto has your back.

andy99 an hour ago

The original title is "Myocardial infarction may be an infectious disease" which appears to be clickbait, with the title posted here being much more accurate.

Immune response to bacteria in arterial plaques can cause them to break up and cause the attack (my lay-interpretation) so the bacteria is a trigger, but "infectious disease" is a bit of hyperbole.

  • JumpCrisscross 30 minutes ago

    > bacteria in arterial plaques can cause them to break up and cause the attack

    “Dormant bacteria within the biofilm remain[ing] shielded from both the patient’s immune system and antibiotics because they cannot penetrate the biofilm matrix” whose rupture “result[s] in thrombus formation and ultimately myocardial infarction” sounds like infection more than careless bacteria kicking up muck.

op00to 42 minutes ago

This seems like a good explanation of how my father died. He had the flu, and died overnight from a massive heart attack.

  • awesome_dude 31 minutes ago

    https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/what-does-the-fl...

    How does flu affect the heart? The virus only rarely infects the heart directly. Instead, the adverse effects of the virus on the heart are due to atherosclerosis of the arteries of the heart. Many people over age 50 have atherosclerosis — and in some people it has not yet been diagnosed. Because atherosclerosis narrows the arteries and reduces the flow of blood, less oxygen reaches the heart muscle. When the effect of the flu on the lungs lowers the amount of oxygen in the blood, this further reduces the supply of oxygen to the heart. This can lead to a heart attack or cardiac arrest (sudden death).

    Is this risk more than theoretical? Many careful studies have shown there is an increased risk of heart disease following a bout of flu. In one study of 80,000 adults with influenza, nearly 12% had a serious cardiac event, such as a heart attack, during or in the weeks after getting the flu.

  • DaveZale 36 minutes ago

    sure does. chain of events. The epidemiologists should be able to validate these claims.